We asked several questions to Turkish citizens about who is right and who is wrong in the incident with the Russian bomber.
So, our interlocutors answered the following questions:
1) were the Turkish military right in their decision to shoot down the SU-24 plane?
4) how would you describe the reaction of Turkish society to the incident?
Here are the answers we received:
Khulya, 20 years old, student from Samsun:
1) I believe that the Turkish authorities were right. Because Russia has violated Turkish airspace before.
There are currently no Daesh fighting in the region ( Arab. name ISIS - ed.), and the actions of the Russian bombers made no sense. Russia joined forces with Assad for the same reasons as usual - to gain access to warm seas. But there is no terrorist threat in Syria, our brotherly people live there, so this is a very sensitive moment for us.
2) NATO has international influence, and Turkey wanted to inform NATO, since we are a member of the alliance, and this affects, among other things, the interests of NATO. Türkiye wants support from NATO.
3) Putin’s statement sounded very harsh, but these problems will be resolved. These are big dirty games, and the people don’t decide anything here, we are just a faceless mass, we don’t know much.
4) This is very hot news for us. There are a lot of Russians living in Turkey, and many more Russians come here as tourists. We are neighbors and we have good relationship. I think that nothing will change in society - and I hope that political issues will be resolved through diplomacy.
Eylem, 18 years old, student, Istanbul:
1) Of course, a terrible and tragic thing happened, but there are some rules and instructions on how to act in such situations. We must study them before judging either side. Personally, I do not support any military action - I am just trying to look at the situation through the eyes of politicians.
2) Of course, this is a normal reaction of the president. Usual for such situations.
3) I don't know anything about this, so I don't want to answer.
4) Turkish society is very differentiated, however, in general, I don’t think anyone considered the actions of the Turkish military that wrong.
B., lawyer, 40 years old, Istanbul:
"Our bastards shot down a plane. Turkey is behaving like an idiot. I would like Putin to give a lesson to our president. The USA is behind this. Third World War is brewing."
Ekaterina Movsumova, publisher
Slavic cuisine is widely known all over the world. The range of dishes of Slavic cuisine is very diverse, and its popularity in Turkey is increasing.
Slavic cuisine is original and unique. No other country in the world has such a wide range of vegetable, meat, fish and other cold appetizers, first and second courses, sweet dishes, and culinary products.
Residents of Turkey treat everything new with great caution, and our cuisine is no exception. Turkey, our dishes amaze with their unusualness, which is worth just okroshka or, for example, borscht. The unusual appearance of our dishes alarms the Turks, but when they try them, they are delighted. Although they do not understand some Slavic dishes and even consider them strange.
What dishes do Turks like, and which ones should Turkish friends and relatives not cook?
Soups and borscht
No other national cuisine offers such a variety of soups. From ancient times to the present day, a rich assortment of first courses and seasoning soups (shchi, borscht, pickles), and hodgepodge has been preserved. There are more than 60 types of cabbage soup alone in Slavic cuisine. Residents of Turkey experience true love to our borscht. Many, having tasted real borscht, look for restaurants with Russian cuisine and take friends and relatives there.
But with okroshka the Turks didn’t make love. Vegetables drenched in kvass cause great bewilderment among most people - why douse the salad? They also don’t understand cabbage soup, especially traditional sour cabbage soup.
Salads
Slavic salads are a separate topic for conversation; representatives of Turkey who have visited, for example, Russia, consider them some kind of amazing achievement national cuisine. Turks like many salads. For example, the same Olivier. In Turkey, it can be seen as an ingredient in Turkish fast food, as a cold aperitif in restaurants, etc. The Turks call Olivier “Russian” salad. Externally and even internally it is similar to the original, but still it is not Olivier. But they are clearly not happy with the vinaigrette. What confuses them, first of all, is appearance. If you still manage to feed it to a Turkish guest, the first thing he will ask will be: “boiled vegetables?”, and then he may wonder why they were chopped so finely. Many residents of Turkey also do not like herring under a fur coat. This dish is a must for festive table in Russia, it is almost impossible to get Turk to try. First of all, because of the presence of “raw” fish in their understanding.
Jellied meat and lard
To the Turkish nation, the very idea of meat jelly seems very strange. It is almost impossible to explain why broth with meat is specially cooled to a jelly-like state. And unfortunately, not many people even dare to try this dish. I think lard is not worth discussing at all. After all, Türkiye is a Muslim country and it is simply a sin for them to eat such an animal as a pig. They consider the pig to be a very dirty animal.
Pickles
The familiar pickles and tomatoes often cause inexplicable delight among Turks. In Turkey, pickles are also very popular, where they are called Turshu and are most often vegetable mixtures in brine.
Yulia Christodulova
: “Türkiye is putting all its air and military forces on alert for preventive purposes.” Moderate left writes: “A Russian military aircraft was shot down during the second incursion into Turkish space.” And the pro-government publication Sabah reports: “Russia depends on Turkey for energy, according to economic experts in Turkey.”
State television channels are filled with propaganda, but there are no stories on them telling whether Turkey will be able to withstand if it does come to a military conflict with Russia. “All forums are now in full swing with discussions,” a Turk, who requested anonymity, told Gazeta.Ru. — Those who stand on Erdogan’s side are mostly people without higher education. Those who have an education understand that all this will not lead to anything good. If economic sanctions are introduced - on tourism, fruits and vegetables or gas, then well... our country was already poor, now it will become even poorer.” However, they are in no hurry to express their views openly on social networks. Gazeta.Ru asked Turks living in the capital Ankara to tell us what they really think about the conflict between the two countries.
Engineer Gokhan Demir:
“We live in the country of our great leader Ataturk, who said: “Peace in the home means peace in the world.” So our priority is world peace, no matter what the government's plans are. The majority of the Turkish people are against war, we are tired of terrorism and violence, we want order in the economy and all the best for all countries.
But now the whole world is prejudiced against Turkey, regarding it as a “terrorist” because we are Muslims. And it hurts us...
If I could bring back yesterday's unfortunate incident... I don't know, but our government says that "we warned Russia not to cross our border five times personally and many times in other ways." And yesterday, the Turkish pilot warned the Russian ten times before the Russian plane was shot down. It fell in Bayırbucak territory, home to Syrian Turkmen fighting Assad's rule. And in this territory there are neither (the organization is banned in the Russian Federation), nor America, nor our state interests. Therefore, I think this crashed plane caused an unnecessarily harsh reaction. I think we should use diplomacy to warn Russia. I would like Türkiye to have strong relations with all neighboring countries. We don't want war or bad relationship with Russia. I am a civil engineer, now getting a new education, and I wanted and still want to work in a Turkish company that operates in Russia. For me, nothing has changed. I also apologize for all the innocent deaths in Russia, including the death of the Russian pilot.
Okan Chakar:
“I just think war is always a bad thing.” But we can't control this whole world in which we play out big games. We love Russians. But for the Turkish nation three things are important: mother, family and country. We are not afraid of those who are going to attack our country. We are a race of warriors. Our cultures are different. Look at the history of Turkey and you will understand me.
Civil engineer Akin Arslan:
— I always told my Russian friends that they should stand for Putin, since he is a patriotic leader for Russia and reads the world well. We know that Russia has always wanted access to the Mediterranean to control the Middle East. This is Russia's historical goal. And when Assad asked for help, Putin saw that it was big chance achieve this goal. And he made the same excuses that the US did 10 years ago: he will bring democracy to Syrian soil using bombs. But Putin took Iran as his assistant. As you know, we had good relations with Russia. And this attack is a big mistake of the Russians, because the United States really wants Russia to get stuck in this dusty country. The United States has been there for 10 years, and we see what is happening with their army. Russia is now in a big crisis, and this crisis can only deepen. Another mistake is to trust Iran. The other problem is that Putin says he is bombing ISIS, but we are getting news from those lands. They are bombing our Turkish people who live in Syria next to the Turkish border! Because they live in a very important area - next to Mediterranean Sea. Putin is a fox, but he must be careful on our southern border. So this is a difficult problem because we have good relations with Russia. Our army said it warned Russian planes 10 times - in Russian and English languages. Therefore, by all rights, the plane was shot down.
And we have the right to ask the question: why are Russian planes flying near our borders and bombing our villages?
We remember that when Russia entered Crimea, Putin said: “Russia will protect the Russians who live on this land.” Now the Turks intend to protect the Turks who live 30-40 km from Turkey!
Ahmet Akan:
— Turkish society does not want war. It was reported that there was a cover-up of corruption by Erdogan and his family. I have respect for Putin. Russia is on the right track in the battle against terrorists. I apologize for the dead Russian soldiers. Many people think like me that Erdogan’s empire and minorities must be destroyed. But we are afraid of the Turkish police.
Gurguch Gulay:
— Who wants a war in Syria? Russia is showing its strength in the Middle East. America doesn't do anything directly - it uses our government, which goes along with it because we depend on them economically. Our entire economy is in their hands. I don't know how true it is that our government says Russian planes entered our airspace. Personally, I would not want a war with Russia.
She noted the day before that the speech did not contain a call for a military escalation of the conflict. The publication's experts came to the conclusion that there is no talk of war yet. But it seems that economic sanctions are still awaiting Turkey. On Tuesday, Russian customs stopped allowing cargo from Turkey. They are sent for full inspection, and customs officers do not give any explanation. Products, including meat, clothing and building materials, have already come under strict control. And on Wednesday, the Russian Prime Minister instructed to develop a set of economic and humanitarian measures within two days as a response to Turkey.
Our “client” for the neighbors is just a godsend
“Russian tourist abroad” has long become a household name and a kind of brand. Well, it’s the same, but with the prefix “in Turkey” - doubly branded. Being a people prone to reflection coupled with self-irony, we ourselves film and write things that no foreigner would ever think of. One word - “Tagil!” - and they say it all. But only for us, and not for the Turks, who have their own view of culturally vacationing Russians.
Having talked with a considerable number of my Turkish acquaintances, I became convinced that this view on average differs in some way from our own, often overly critical, ideas about ourselves. First of all, greater goodwill.
Well, with alcohol it’s clear. “Who doesn’t drink?” - we ask quite reasonably, especially at summer vacation, where “all inclusive” and “ultra all inclusive”. And then we ourselves come up with daring jokes about ordering “two more minibars” for our hotel room and about the fact that “in Antalya, it turns out, there is a sea.”
This folklore, translated into Turkish and retold to the Turks, invariably amuses them. However, having laughed a lot, they will not fail to say that Russians are a very cultured and educated people thanks to a well-established system of primary, secondary and higher education, which is no match for the Turkish one. If they are not interrupted in time in order to slightly lower them from heaven to earth, then even those who have never been to our country will say as a compelling argument: “Everyone in your subway reads books.” And this despite the huge number beautiful girls in the rolling stock of the metro. But in Turkish, they say, everyone just stares around, however, without such compelling reasons compared to Russia.
In general, the beauty of Russian girls in the male half of the Turkish population causes constant delight, which can easily and naturally, even during a two-week vacation, be converted into a legal union of two hearts. But it would be very strange if the better half of Turkish society echoed the male one and reacted just as enthusiastically to Russian women, without inserting a pair of stilettos on their own in a purely feminine way.
Along with the recognition of the beauty of our girls (you can’t argue against a fact), from those Turkish women who are younger and more jealous, you can often hear said in a conspiratorial tone, “but Russian girls grow old quickly.” And it is useless to argue that rapid aging is still the prerogative southern peoples, including the Turks themselves. They get old, period... And for some reason Russian women, they say, take pictures hugging trees. The argument in competition for the attention of local men is not very good, but what can you do sometimes in the absence of the best.
However, from this very shaky ground, let’s step onto more solid ground: according to the Turks, Russians are good clients, not stingy, and at the same time not particularly able or fond of bargaining. Although we would like to note here that in the matter of bargaining with the Turks, few people in the world can compete. And certainly other foreign visitors to Turkey cannot be included in their number - for example, the same Europeans or Americans, who, compared to the Russians, will also be stingier.
So our client is simply a godsend for Turkish sellers. Moreover, a somewhat paradoxical situation has developed: on the one hand, our compatriots travel to Turkey a lot and with pleasure, but on the other hand, the proportion of those who truly understand Turkish products and brands and at the same time still know market prices is not very great. This, I think, is a significant contribution to the thriving Russian-Turkish shuttle trade for many years, the entire business of which is built on buying something cheaper and simpler in Turkey and selling what was later bought in Russia as “genuine Turkey” with a higher markup. At the same time, real Turkey reaches Russia much less often, and its prices in our stores are not comparable to domestic Turkish prices.
That is why the Russian Internet is replete with brand names unknown to anyone in Turkey with Russians asking where they could be purchased. Correct answer: “My address is not a house or a street, my address is Laleli/Istanbul.” From this “small Arnautskaya”, in fact, all the products. And at the same time, from the Istanbul Covered Market, famous for its counterfeits of famous world brands, “Kapala Charshi”, which, by the way, is now being rebuilt with the hope of growing clientele. And from there, having spent very modest sums, especially by the standards of the originals, every Russian man or woman who wants can come out “all in Dolce Gabbana.”
However, the Turks themselves do not see anything reprehensible in wearing a counterfeit world label or wearing counterfeit perfume. That is why the market for both in the country is blooming and smelling, and in the literal sense of the word. For the Turks are very practical and reason simply and in a worldly way: why pay more if you can get almost the same thing much cheaper? And in this sense, Russians are treated with “understanding”.
By the way, in a curious way, the purely Turkish idea of an all-inclusive holiday, which has become one of the symbols of tourist Turkey, is based on how to make something that was initially expensive cheaper.
The simple idea that a person cannot drink and eat more than he is physiologically capable of turned out to be so productive, and Turkish hotel management so effective, that the country’s tourism industry has risen to unprecedented heights in just a couple of decades.
The only disadvantage of this system is that it only works when there is a full or almost full load. This is what the industry experienced during the crisis in Russian-Turkish relations, when in 2016 the number of Russian vacationers fell sharply and barn locks on the gates of many hotels became the best alternative to the holiday season. Well, the worst thing is to directly put them up for sale.
Today, the entire tourist Turkey is literally living in anticipation of the coming summer season and the return of Russians, after reconciliation between Presidents Putin and Erdogan, to local resorts. Moreover, the Turks secretly expect that the Russians will rest not only for themselves, but also for “that guy.” By “guy” I mean those many Europeans and Americans who seem to be ignoring Turkey this year. “The West is taking revenge on Erdogan,” Turkish hoteliers say sadly.
However, the truth is that for a number of years the Turks have been selling to the Russians a Turkey that was sold easily and without any fuss. In one phrase, then five-star “all-inclusive” Turkey on the Mediterranean coast with its main resorts - Marmaris, Fethiye, Antalya and Alanya.
As a result, Turkey, favored by American and European tourists who are more mobile than Russians, with its coastal villages, boutique hotels and guesthouses, turned out to be simply “terra incognita” for Russians. And this applies to almost the entire north-west and west of the country. Just as most Russians do not associate Turkey with alternative recreation - active, medical, gastronomic, etc. Well, during the fat tourist years, Turkey did not invest in their marketing on the Russian market - and now, after a series of political crises, it is reaping the fruits of its strategic miscalculation. In fact, there is simply no one to quickly replace a Western tourist.
It is necessary to take into account the habit of our citizens for an all-inclusive vacation, which, when packaged in a tour package, turns out to be a more budget option than a boarding house, as well as the habit and understandable desire of Russians to relax in the south with that “five-star” comfort that is often so not enough in everyday life Russian life. In general, their desire for a two-week period is to “become a lake and reflect the clouds”, without demonstrating excessive physical activity outside the walls of the hotel, limiting themselves to forays to the sea, the dining room, the bar - and back “to the rooms.”
And remember the fact that ecotourism, where the priority is not comfort, but communication with nature as such, is designed for an individual client - a kind of connoisseur of beauty with an active life position, which in Russia, as it happens, are still somewhat smaller than in the West. So for now, the “other Türkiye” is still waiting to be discovered by guests from Russia.
In less than a year, Russian-Turkish relations have turned 180 degrees twice. Has the attitude of ordinary Turks towards Russians changed as a result of these somersaults? What do they associate Russia with in general, what stereotypes are there in Turkish society in this regard? Lenta.ru turned to Turkish experts with these questions.
Hasan Selim Ozertem, director of the Center for Security and Energy Studies of the Organization for International Strategic Studies (USAK, Ankara), expert of the Valdai Club:
In Turkey, it is customary to distinguish between relations between people and between states. The Turks were angry that the Russian plane violated the country's airspace, but this did not change their attitude towards Russians who come to Turkey. As far as can be judged, there have never been any cases of targeted violence against Russians. Moreover, during the period of deteriorating relations, television did not inflame hatred of Russians. Thus, the crisis that erupted on November 24 last year left no noticeable scars.
But the attitude towards Russia as a foreign policy player has worsened. If in 2013 and 2015 just over 10 percent of Turks considered Russia a threat (according to a survey by Kadir Has University), then in 2016 the figure was already 34.9 percent. Only the United States was perceived by residents of Turkey as a more serious threat - 44.1 percent. After relations between the countries normalized, Russia became less likely to be seen as a threat.
In Turkish society, Russia as a state is treated with respect and is considered a politically and militarily developed power. However, we are also closely monitoring the performance of the Russian economy.
If you ask ordinary Turks who and what is a symbol of Russia and Russians for them, you will receive the following answers: undoubtedly, Putin, gas and oil (in that order), nuclear weapons, Moscow, St. Basil's Cathedral on Red Square with its onion-shaped domes, and today - tourists. And also - don't get me wrong - the beauty of Russian women.
In addition, Turks have great respect for Russian culture, especially classical authors such as Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Gorky and Pushkin. I believe that Nazim Hikmet (Turkish poet, novelist, screenwriter, playwright and public figure - approx. "Tapes.ru") and his life in Russia are well known to Turks, especially those of the left. I don't think the Turks know modern Russian writers, composers, theater and film directors. The main reasons for this are the lack of proper interaction and the language barrier.
Due to the legacy of previous years, some groups of the population are distancing themselves from Russia. Its communist past is a problem, especially for conservatives and nationalists, but this does not mean that Russia is seen as a second-class country, on the contrary, it is taken into account and respected, although they believe that one must be careful in bilateral relations with it.
Moreover, Russia is seen as a country that contributed to the industrial modernization of Turkey during the Republican period and during the Cold War. Her contribution to the Turkish War of Independence is also known. However, Stalin's demands for control of the straits and territorial claims turned Russia into a threat.
Men love vodka, and women are beautiful - these are the main stereotypes of Turks about Russia and Russians. And the symbol of Russian power and unpredictability is, of course, the bear.
Yaşar Yakış, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Turkey (2002–2003), expert at the Valdai International Discussion Club:
Russians are of interest to Turks depending on the level of relations between Russia and Turkey. Russians are interesting when Russia attracts attention on the international stage, regardless of the state of Russian-Turkish relations. This is speaking in general. Today Russia and the Russians are among the four important topics, which periodically come to the fore in Turkish public opinion. Relations with the United States, relations with Russia, the process of accession to the European Union, the issue of Cyprus (meaning the legal status of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, a state recognized only by Ankara - approx. "Tapes.ru") - these are important topics for the Turks, and the order of their importance varies depending on the circumstances. And it doesn’t matter whether they sound with a plus sign or a minus sign.
Turkish society is aware that Russia is a diverse, multinational and multi-religious state. Turks also know about the dominance of the Russian language, that it is spoken by educated people in many post-Soviet countries - in Central Asia and the Caucasus. Moreover, Russian is also used there for communication within the family.
There is a visible difference between the perceptions of elites and ordinary people about Russia and Russians. Elites are more likely to think about Russia and Russian people in a broad historical perspective: about the common imperial past of the Ottomans and Tsarist Russia, about the contribution of Tsarist and Communist Russia to modern civilization and technology, about the absence or dysfunction of democracy, about Russian-Turkish wars and so on. The Turkish Russian intelligentsia is represented by writers such as Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Pushkin and Turgenev, and composers such as Tchaikovsky. If you ask business representatives about Russia, they will first of all remember Russian architecture and infrastructure.
Ordinary Turks still have information about numerous Russian-Turkish wars somewhere in the back of their minds. On the positive side, ideas about Russians are created based on direct contacts between people that began after the collapse of communism and the expansion of economic ties after arriving in Russia huge amount Turkish workers, engineers and other specialists, tens of thousands of mixed marriages, millions of Russian tourists visiting Turkey. As for symbols, people on the street associate Russia with a bear, nesting dolls, and Caucasian dances. The strength of Russia for the Turks is expressed by the head of state, now it is President Putin.
Since the collapse of communism, positive perceptions of Russians outweigh negative ones. Such stereotypes include mutual respect and understanding. The genuine hospitality with which post-Soviet Russians greet Turks coming to Russia is another stereotype. Russian tourists in Turkey are perceived much more positively than tourists from European countries. Delving into history, we can recall: Turkish prisoners of war captured Russian army in 1917, they said that Russian authorities, and the people treated them politely, respecting their human dignity. Turkish workers feel more at home in Russia than in Europe. Marriages between Turks and Russians are easier to arrange than marriages between Turks and Europeans - perhaps due to the fact that Russian spouses turn out to be more adapted to the way family life in Turkey.